Talking Comeback, Trump and Anderson Cooper with Kathy Griffin

This week Kathy Griffin made an appearance on Comedy Central's "The President's Show" where she will be played Kellyanne Conway. It was her second television appearance in a month (she appeared on the HBO series "Real Time with Bill Maher" on March 9) and marks a return to American media for the 57-year old comedian after her fall from pop culture grace last year.

That happened when she posed with prop of a severed head of Donald Trump for a now infamous photo, then promoted it on social media. It immediately appeared that Griffin was committing career hara-kiri: she lost lucrative endorsements; U.S. tour dates cancelled; television appearances - including her New Year's Eve co-host gig with Anderson Cooper - evaporated; she received obscene death threats; and her celebrity friends shunned her. Even her mother thought she went too far. And, yes, was denounced by the President, his family members, and media pundits.

What people didn't know was how she was interrogated by the Department of Justice and put on the Interpol list, which seriously impacted her international travel when she took her cheekily titled "The Laugh Your Head Off World Tour" to Europe and Australia. At every airport she was stopped and interrogated.

"It shouldn't happen to an American citizen," she recently told the Associated Press, adding that people had the right to dislike the photo, but must realize it is protected speech. "If there's one amendment I'm familiar with it's the First Amendment. I know it back and forth and it's how I make my living."

She also was surprised by the outrage the photo (taken by the provocative photographer Tyler Shields) had on her career and life. "I really never thought that photo would take off at all. Like I've been doing 'shocking' things my whole career." She called the fallout "faux-outrage."

"My social media was so flooded that I really thought, 'OK, I am the most reviled person in the world right now,'" she continued. "It's been a long time to sort of process that and figure out what's real and what isn't." She added: "I really do believe if it happened to me it can happen to you."

During her hiatus, she spent time to reflect on what happened and use it to move forward. Some career consultants told her to take a career break of eight years, others said five. A poorly planned and executed news conference with lawyer Lisa Bloom was a media disaster. It appeared her career was on life support.

Undaunted, she took the advice of Jim Carrey, which was to use her experiences to inform her act. Overnight the apolitical comic - best-known for skewering celebrities - was now a political firebrand, but one with self-deprecating one-liners. Re-energized after her international tour, she brings it to 11 cities throughout Canada and the United States starting on May 23. After her appearance with Bill Maher, her Carnegie Hall date in New York City on June 26 sold-out in 24 hours. (An additional date at Radio City Music Hall on June 25 was added.)

For more on Griffin's tour dates, visit her website.

EDGE spoke to Griffin recently about her career crisis, the fall-out that followed.

It can happen to you

EDGE: You recently appeared on Bill Maher's show and really surprised a lot of people about what has happened to you since the Trump photo incident.

Kathy Griffin: It is so interesting so many people came up to me after that appearance - it was the only American television I have done in about a year - and they were saying, 'Oh my gosh, I had no idea. I am so surprised.' I think it was good that I did that because I truly believe that if it can happen to me, it can happen to you.

EDGE: Were you surprised that people were surprised?

Kathy Griffin: I was, because I have been trying to shout my stories from the rafters, saying, "you may not have liked that photo and that's completely okay, but this shouldn't be happening." I think from the beginning what I have been trying to say is, first, what happened and is currently happening to me is unprecedented and historic in the following way: never in the history of the United States has a sitting U.S. President used the power of the Oval office, obviously the first family, Fox News, the alt-right, Breitbart and finally the Department of Justice, to try to decimate an American citizen - it has never happened and it's happening to me, a 57-year old female comedian. What is so crazy about this whole story is that people think I am a member of ISIS, but (as Stormy Daniels pointed out) that Trump is sitting on some poor, adult star's bed saying spank me with a magazine. You know it is probably one of those fake Time magazines he had mocked up... I don't get it. So going through this whole process has been a little study in hypocrisy and revisionist bull shit.

And I realized the only way I am going to come out of this is the old-fashioned way: one joke at a time. So when everybody else ran like cock roaches when the lights came on, I thought, the one thing I can do is keep writing material. And I had a fantastic time on the overseas leg of my tour - 'The Laugh Your Head Off World Tour.' I did 15 countries and 22 cities. The show evolved because when I was traveling I was on the Interpol list and was detained at every airport. And I am not going to lie, Singapore was a little scary because when you have to go make the gays laugh in Singapore, you have to be on time, not delayed at an airport. But I have to add that I have never seen so many gay boys in knock-off Hermes bags in line as at my Singapore show. It was fabulous. And by the way, that was the country I was warned the most that the community has to be closeted; then I go to the show and the guys are practically in high heels with eyeliner like Taylor Swift.

So I got to cut my teeth on this tour, and I am going to have more material when I hit the road again starting in Ottawa and going through Canada. And I don't know if you heard, but I have been invited to the White House Correspondents Dinner. That was breaking news last week in my world. Who knows if Trump will go because he's too much of a pussy. But it is my fantasy that if he doesn't go it is going to be because of me or if he does go it is because me. So it's a win-win for me.

Those death threats

EDGE: You mentioned on Bill Maher about the serious threats you have received in the past few months. Do they make you afraid of touring?

Kathy Griffin: I am not anymore because I know this clich�, because what are you going to do? I have already been denied work in my own country, I am already banned from television and paid work on television even though I have worked on television for decades and made all these networks and corporations a lot of friggin' money. But you know right now there are a lot of Americans who are scared of hiring me, so I am relishing proving myself again; but at the same time, this stuff is continuing. But I am not a fearful person to begin with, so while the situation has been way over the top and extreme, I am still hard-wired to hit the microphone so nothing can stop me. So I am not really going forward being nervous about it, I am just thinking of all the stuff I can add to the show.

EDGE: Joan Rivers said that a comic should never apologize, and she was often in trouble for where she took her comedy. Do you feel you are picking up where she left off?

Kathy Griffin: I hope so. When Joan and I got together we mostly talked shop. We would talk about the business and sexism a lot. She was such a trailblazer in so many ways, and she would talk about the women before her that were trailblazers. Yet she would always point out that people would lump her in with Phyllis Diller and that was because there were so few female comics out there beyond the age of fifty. But one of the things unusual about my Trump photo is that there was no precedent for it - like, nothing quite like it had ever happened. But Joan was getting in trouble all the time when she said shocking things. And I take a lot of strength from the fact that she was out there really doing it on her own. I really identify with that.

Joan never had a network really have her back; nor did I. Obviously, look at Andy Cohen, I made them a lot of money, but they never had my back. I actually have had networks turn on me that I made money for. The thought about every time you pull yourself up by your bootstraps is you do so by going back to the basics. In my case it is writing my stuff and taking this experience and making it funny. There are a lot of funny elements. I'm sorry, but the idea that through this entire ordeal my next door neighbors are Kim Kardashian West and Kanye Kardashian West is just funny. Like I would be getting these incredible death threats at my house then I would see Kim walking down the driveway in a giant jacket that says Pablo all over it because her husband is nuts and he thinks he's Pablo Picasso, that's funny. And I am just taking it all in. During this period my sister passed away and I shaved my head in solidarity because she had cancer; then people would see me on the street not knowing that and would think I had become Britney, like unhinged. The good thing about comedy is that you put it all in the pot and when you bake it, it's funny. And by the way, I never did a cooking metaphor in an interview. I have no idea where that came from.

Lowest point

EDGE: What was the lowest point for you since all this has happened?

Kathy Griffin: I think the lowest point was that so many people turned on me that it didn't occur to me that they would turn on me. Sure, people publicly supported me, primarily if they were caught on a red carpet or something, and I will take it. I can't say that I didn't get support. But I can say that about all the people I have done charity events for and hosted events for free or shown up at their houses for some cause, not one of them to this day have lifted a finger and said, "I am going to put you on my show." No offense, I am not saying one line on a show that no one ever heard of - I have two Emmys and a Grammy. Nobody came in and said I am going to produce your next comedy special and get Netflix or HBO to buy it or I am going to give you a part in my hit series, just one episode - things that would have really helped. That wouldn't have required much effort from people who knew I wasn't a member of ISIS.

But for me it's been back to basics. In that respect Joan would often express to me how she felt that she wasn't accepted in certain groups even in her own industry, so she made her own path. It worked for her, and I wish there was an easier way to do it. And I found that overseas people liked hearing about the interrogation by the Feds and I take people right in the room; and tell them how crazy it got on the day of the photo. And the day I got the call from the Department of Justice. You know me, I thought it was a joke at first - I thought my friends were trying to punk me. There was a lot of crazy stuff here and I go there. I actually read one of my death threats on stage. And I am promising you that it will be a little squeamish, but mostly funny because Trump fans, believe it or not, are not big on the grammar. And there is comedy in that.

EDGE: It sounds like you gained strength from this experience. Have you?

Kathy Griffin: Yeah. At first, obviously, there is no denying: I was a complete wreck. I was crying every day and thinking, 'Oh my gosh. I will never make money in my own country again. I don't want to move.' People were saying I would have to go away for eight years, then five years. I was like negotiating with my agent about when I could come back. Then I thought, 'Fuck that. I am not going anywhere. Let's see if I can make some lemonade out of this.' So I really made lemonade out of this because I just had to.

This kind of experience is really not that much different from my normal process, meaning before I was on television my act was about what guy I was dating or my family; but once I went to Hollywood my act became very celebrity oriented because I was just meeting a lot of these celebrities and couldn't believe how crazy they were. And now I've got this story. As Canada's own Jim Carrey said, you've got a story that any comedian would give their right arm for because it is personal, it is unique, and it is about the most talked about topic in the world right now, which is how crazy Trump is. So I am leaning in. I don't know if I have gotten stronger but it is a day-to-day process. I am still feeling shunned in Hollywood, but I do have to say that selling out Carnegie Hall in 24 hours was a big triumph. So I think if I can come back by being good at my job and being funny, and get a standing ovation at the end of my show as I did overseas, then, darn it, I have done my job.

EDGE: Did you ever doubt that you weren't funny?

Kathy Griffin: I mean, let me put it this way - I never had any doubts and I knew my job is to make this funny. But there were times when I was scared thinking, 'wait a minute, I have been making a living in comedy for so many decades, what the hell am I going to do if this thing is real, meaning I can't get any paid work?' And trust me, honey, they still come at me to do a free hosting gig, but I want to make a living like everybody else. And, news flash, I even want equal pay, which takes a lot of nerve coming from a woman. But I think even from day one I started thinking of ways to make it funny, even if it is the bizarre experience of being interrogated by the Department of Justice.

I have never done middle-of-the-road comedy. I have always done in your face comedy - that's the way I am wired. So I never doubted that I was funny, I just had to work overtime. Making this story funny is going to be a challenge because this topic has so much seriousness to it. And also this Administration is so horrifying. As a long time advocate for the LGBTQ community, so I will be talking about LGBTQ issues because I really feel this administration is horrifying on that front, and as a female and an ally, we have to be more aware.

One thing that is working in my favor is that we all have to be political now. Look at the Parkland kids. Look at all these rights being rolled back. Please, no comedian is worth his or her salt that does not talk about Trump. He is the biggest joke. He is also a legit threat. And he is all we are talking about. I am embracing the old adage, "what a time to be alive." I am just trying to make it funny because it is all so fucking horrifying.

EDGE: If Melania Trump were to call you, what advice would you give her?

Kathy Griffin: Oh, I thought you said Millennial Trump and was excited because I thought, would that be his kid with Stormy Daniels?

But if Melania were to call me, first of all, I would say, whatever the deal you made, you need to have it quadrupled. I would say, "girl. Get out. Get out now. You already got the ring. You've got enough." We now know he barebacks - he's condom free. A 72-year old guy - I don't believe he's disease free. Remember when they were showing us his crazy doctor, Harold Bornstein, who said he was going to be the most healthy president in the history of presidents? Well, now I think Trump is hiding full throttle dementia, that's what I am convinced of. Now I think he has every, like, every VD you can think of. I hope Stormy put some bleach on that poor thing, I mean her vagina.

EDGE: What did you think of Stormy Daniels' appearance on "60 Minutes"?

Kathy Griffin: I thought she was completely credible. Of course, if you go online you see all these idiot guys saying because she's a sex worker, she's not a person. No, you can be both. You can be a sex worker and be a human being. I thought she was completely credible. And, by the way, are the gays hot for her attorney (Michael Avenatti)? I think so. I'm thinking, okay. He's got the body, he's got the looks; he's got the determination. And I thought her interview was really well done and she was credible. Her story completely adds up, I contributed to her legal defense fund and she thanked me. I was considering having her for my opening act, but now I don't think I can afford her frankly. She's too big for me.

EDGE: Have you heard from Anderson Cooper?

Kathy Griffin: No. And that one was hard because throughout this whole experience it was bad enough that the artistic community didn't wrap their arms around me, but to have the friends you never thought would turn on you turn, was just ugh. I don't even have a funny spin on it. That one just sucked. But I should end on a joke.

For more on Kathy Griffin and to learn more about her tour, follow this link.