Gay Like Me. 'Sesame Street' Writer Mark Saltzman on the Bert and Ernie Controversy

Emmy award winning writer Mark Saltzman wrote for "Sesame Street" for years in the 1980s and 1990s, and brought his personal life as a partnered gay man to what he wrote for the show's male muppet couple, Bert and Ernie. EDGE spoke to Saltzman about the controversy and his career.

Mark Saltzman joined the staff at "Sesame Street" in the 1980s where he got to write for the show's muppet cast, including Bert and Ernie. Being out (he was partnered with the late film editor Arnold Glassman), Saltzman brought his life experiences of living with another man to what he wrote about these two muppets who also happened to live together. For his work on the show, he won seven Emmy Awards.

He also, as a musical theater geek, wrote some 50 songs for the show over his career there. Outside of "Sesame Street," Saltzman has written numerous cabaret shows and musicals, including the holiday movie "Mrs. Santa Claus" starring Angela Lansbury with songs by Jerry Herman and the award-winning musical play "The Tin Play Alley Rag," which was produced in New York City by the Roundabout Theatre Company in 2009.

EDGE spoke to Saltzman this week after the producers of Sesame Street stated ethat Bert and Ernie were not gay – a pronouncement that had the Internet ablaze as to why they bothered. EDGE spoke to Saltzman about their decision, his writing for "Sesame Street" and what it was like being out in the television industry in the 1980s.

Are they gay?

EDGE: So, are Bert and Ernie gay?

Marc Saltzman: My answer is, when I wrote them, I used my relationship with my partner, Arnold and our experiences as two men living together as an example. Did they have reflections of a gay couple? Yes, but were they gay, no. Does the gay community embrace them as a gay couple? Yes. They are two guys that definitely love each other and should be perceived as the viewer sees them.

EDGE: Sesame Street released a statement saying, "Bert and Ernie aren't gay." Did they miss a chance to support the LGBTQ community?

Marc Saltzman: I do think they did. Nothing was harder than writing a script for "Sesame Street." You had to write for both kids and parents. You had to write a story that was a teaching lesson that kids could understand. "Sesame Street" always tackled different topics to use as a teaching tool. There is a growing majority of children that are growing up with same-sex parents and they should be able to see that on television. Bert and Ernie are two guys who love each other. Their friendship or love for each other could be viewed as two dads, friends or brothers who love each other. Every group of people needs some representation on television.

EDGE: Did you think this story would garner so much media attention?

Marc Saltzman: No way! When I sat down for the interview with Queerty, we talked about me being gay and writing for "Sesame Street." I was lucky enough to work for them and I am grateful for the experience. As a company, they were and still are a gay-friendly work place.

EDGE: Since this announcement was made, many have been debating whether puppets can have a sexual orientation. Do they?

Marc Saltzman: Within the muppets world, I don't know really what the rules are and how they apply. They are fictional characters, but not within realm of love and romance from a child's point of view. The aspects of the love between Bert and Ernie are great. There is one episode where Ernie sings a song about missing Bert. The theme there was that it was okay to miss someone that you liked or loved. The song could have been about your brother, dad, or friend. From a preschooler point of view, there is no sexual orientation; it is only about love.

Two guys who loved each other

EDGE: When writing, how did you see them?

Mark Saltzman: Two guys who loved each other and that is as far as I took it. Two guys like me and Arnie. There was never any sexual thought to it. I was in their kind of relationship of two guys that lived together and bickered with each other. It never had any type of sexual component. From the point of view of preschoolers, gay would only mean two mommies or two daddies and that is it. I was Ernie and my partner was Bert.

EDGE: Over the years, "Sesame Street" has championed diversity and inclusion. Isn't time for a gay muppet?

Mark Saltzman: Yes, well maybe? There definitely needs to be a gay human character. I think if it begins with a gay muppet, I would worry that it would get to cartoony. For a teaching point-of-view, I would want the kids to see something that is real. Showing them how human beings court and love in real life, just like they experience. Do we need gay representation on television? Yes. Having a gay silly representation in the form of a muppet? I guess would be better than no representation. You can definitely apply the "Bert and Ernie" paradigm to any situation.

EDGE: You have done writing for stage, television, and film. What is your favorite medium to work in?

Mark Saltzman: Talk about stereotypes! It would be musical theater. No, I mean action movies. [He laughs.] Musical theatre was the first thing I loved in showbiz. I love the process of intertwining songs and narratives. I was bred in a laboratory for it. My next project, a musical, is "Romeo and Bernadette." It will start workshopping in NYC soon. I did write one gay character for it and I made him a little sassy.

EDGE: What is the Arnold Glassman Fund?

Mark Saltzman: Even before Arnie and I were living together, we always hosted a New Year's Day party for all our friends who had nothing to do but live with their regrets from the night before. It became an annual event. It was a revolving door and you could just come and go as you liked. Back when our friends started dying from AIDS, we turned it into a fundraiser to help raise money to fight AIDS/HIV. After Arnie passed away, I continued it. Over the years, the money we raised went to different causes. For the last 15 years, the money is used to help fund documentaries. Now we are looking to fund more gay-themed and film history documentaries. Both "Tab Hunter Confidential" and "I am Divine" documentaries were recipients. Our next project is named "Swanson on Sunset." It is based on the true story of Gloria Swanson and how she hired a gay couple to write the music for the "Sunset Boulevard" musical.

EDGE: Since the Emmy's just recently aired, where do you keep the 7 Daytime Emmys you have won?

Mark Saltzman: I do have 6 Emmys that are on display in the living room and the 7th is currently in the garage waiting to get repaired. Its seems that the angel girl has weak ankles. I probably shouldn't have used her to bang on a door that was painted shut.

I must mention that Arnie has 3 nephews and they have stayed on top of this story since it broke. They are very happy that his name is back in the news. One of them posted on their Facebook, "I just found out my uncles are Bert and Ernie! No wonder, I loved them so much!" I thought that was the sweetest thing to read.

For more information on Mark Saltzman and his work, visit visit his website.